Tempers boil in dispute over Issaquah rooster

December 10, 2009

By David Hayes

NEW — 12:30 p.m. Dec. 10, 2009

Issaquah icon McNugget the rooster became the center of controversy Tuesday and Wednesday when a group of concerned citizens were blocked from moving him to a warmer environment.

Kristen Parshall, and her friend Debby Welsh, both of Fall City, became worried about McNugget’s welfare in the face of the freezing weather reaching overnight lows in the teens and below.

“Our biggest concern is the winters,” said Parshall, a former employee of Posado’s Animal Rescue. “He needs to be in a coop with a heat lamp.”

Their first effort to catch McNugget was met with resistance from a barista who alerted Issaquah Grange Supply staff.

Parshall said an argument ensued over who could best provide for McNugget’s well being. Frustrated by the resistance, she and Welsh gave up.

Parshall said Welsh called the Grange the next day, this time asking for permission to remove McNugget.

“A manager said, ‘If you can catch him, you can keep him,’” Parshall said.

Yet again, they were met with resistance, this time from customers of the espresso stand and a couple of other employees from the Grange.

“I was really surprised,” Welsh said, who also volunteered at Posado’s. “They called us terrorists and crazy PETA people. The hostility was extraordinary.”

So extraordinary, that Issaquah police were called to the scene.

According to the police report, employees from the Grange and the espresso stand stated McNugget was fine. King County Animal Care and Control was contacted for information about the incident.

The police report said animal control representatives indicated Parshall and Welsh had no right to remove the animal from the property, as it was considered owned by the espresso stand owner. The owner was not at the scene at the time of the incident.

McNugget escaped from the nearby Issaquah Grange Supply years ago as a chick and adopted the parking lot of the now Staples store as its new home. Employees of the espresso stand in the lot adopted the rooster and gave him his name and a crate for shelter.

About three years ago, Parshall, a regular customer of the espresso stand, provided a home upgrade to a doghouse and stopped by occasionally to feed him.

She and Welsh’s concern for McNugget peaked when the temperatures dropped to overnight lows of 10 degrees.

“It also looked like his comb was frost-bitten,” Welsh said. “I just felt so bad for him, standing there shivering while I was feeding him.”

Parshall said she offered the espresso stand owner hundreds of dollars to purchase McNugget, but the offer was declined.

“I would leave them alone if they put up a proper coop with a heating lamp,” she added.

Parshall said they showed no inclination to take that measure either, even though the Grange sells both items.

Parshall and Welsh said they are far from quitting their crusade to provide McNugget a better home. They plan to stage a protest and alert other media sources to bring attention to McNugget’s plight.

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Comments

134 Responses to “Tempers boil in dispute over Issaquah rooster”

  1. rita laws on December 10th, 2009 3:22 pm

    Since when did being compassionate make you a terrorist? We offer the homeless a warm place to sleep, heck, people even bring their plants inside. What is wrong with saving this animal from suffering? I challenge any of the people who think that leaving any living being out in this weather is ok to spend the night outside with McNugget.

  2. Carol Guilbault on December 10th, 2009 3:40 pm

    This expresso stand cares about the cash they will lose if they don’t have their little “prop”. This is an animal who has no voice and his shivering and near death escapes is him telling us his living situtation is not safe.
    Give me a break and give McNugget a true home where he will be cared for properly. I will never buy a coffee from this stand again!

  3. Concerned Citizen on December 10th, 2009 4:40 pm

    McNugget is an emancipated free rooster. He is NOT owned by anyone. He made the conscious choice at an early age to break free from his chickenesque bondage. It was a tough decision for any respectable chicken much less a mere chick. When he made his life altering run, McNugget knowingly chose the vicarious dangerous life of freedom and all that entails. McNugget has survived avoiding the cats and dogs, bothersome children, and meddlesome do gooders. How dare these two “terrorist kidnappers” attempt to force their idealogy on this majestic rooster and use “manifest destiny” to justify the domestication of this proud rooster – a true rooster among roosters! A saner and truly compasionate individual would have simply offered Mr. McNugget a first class plane ticket to a warmer environment for the winter or simply provide him with some source of warmth for the cold night. Possibly a couple of warm hens and a nip would do it for Mr, McNugget.

  4. Expresso Patron on December 10th, 2009 6:53 pm

    I have seen this poor rooster freezing each day…and have wanted to see him go to a proper home. I have 6 chickens of my own & a rooster and they do need a coop everynight ecspecially during the wintertime. I think it is wrong for this rooster to fend for himself in these record cold temp. This seems very silly that there are people wanting to take him and they are not being allowed? Who owns him anyway?

  5. Issaquah Citizen on December 10th, 2009 7:00 pm

    I wondered about this chicken. Shouldn’t he be at an actual residence somewhere as opposed to a public parking lot? It’s definitely not right that he has no chicken coop.

  6. cecile guilbault on December 11th, 2009 7:31 am

    This is outrageous that these kind people are not allowed to provide a safe and warm home for this poor creature. It is all about making money for the coffee stand by providing him as an entertainment. Shame on them and anyone who supports them.

  7. Mike Ostrem on December 11th, 2009 9:28 am

    I would like to hear from the espresso stand and Grange people. I want to hear what they have to say, not what someone says they said. Are they really that calous? This appears to be a problem brewing with a very simple solution that’s going to get extremely complicated. I don’t quite understand how KCAC or anyone else for that matter can say that McNugget is “considered owned” by the espresso stand owner. Does the espresso stand owner have pets at home that are left outside in 10 degree weather? Seems like there’s some cruelty issues here if McNugget truly has an “owner”. There are a couple good offers on the table, hundreds of dollars to buy McNugget or a small coup built off the ground with a heat lamp. Here’s another, I’ll donate towards the coup and heat lamp costs and help install them. I know the people behind the effort to help McNugget. They are genuinely concerned for McNugget and all animals. They are not terrorists or crazy but they are caring and determined to help animals in need and McNugget appears to be just that.

  8. Tina on December 11th, 2009 9:37 am

    Only one side of the story is being told concerning McNugget. When people resort to character assasination, deception and harrasment to advance their cause it is a shame.

  9. kellyp on December 11th, 2009 10:21 am

    I agree it sounds like an issue of money. the coffee stand is more interested in having a prop for their customer’s entertainment. it reminds me of the highway zoos that were popular in the 50’s to 70’s until they were outlawed. they treated their animals horably. they were only interested in the money they generated.

  10. Mike Krutsinger on December 11th, 2009 11:18 am

    I’m totally baffled at the disconnect people have between different animals.
    If this were a dog, the community would be outraged that it was vulnerable to predators and left in the record cold temperatures.
    The fact is McNugget is not safe as proven by the dog attack. The communities beloved rooster has been left to certainly meet the same situation in the future.
    The inside of a refrigerator is warmer than the outside temperatures right now. Should a living animal be kept inside a fridge? Does this help put the situation in perspective?

    Sounds like a no-brainer doesn’t it?

  11. kristin Parshall on December 11th, 2009 11:38 am

    OK…this is very simple. McNugget has NO shelter to protect him from predators or extreme weather conditions. He has a dog house, which I supplied about 3 years ago, but I learned that he does not go in there at night. I have been told repeatedly that he hops up on a tree limb at night. Can anyone tell me how tree limb can possibly shelter a rooster from snow, rain, or windchill? If that was considered perfectly adequate shelter for a chicken in freezing cold temps, then no one would use chicken coops. Anyone who thinks it’s perfectly fine to leave McNugget OUTSIDE in weather that drops down to the teens is cruel.
    He was also attacked and injured by a dog earlier this year which was mentioned in a previous article. If we were talking about a little dog, people would be lining up to provide a better home, but McNugget is “just a chicken” and thought of mostly as entertainment by heartless coffee customers and other members of the community. I would urge any customers of the coffee drive-thru, especially those who keep their own chickens in a coop to ask the same for McNugget! By the way the offer WAS made to take McNugget for the winter and bring him back but it was rejected!

  12. Concerned Citizen on December 11th, 2009 11:48 am

    How ignorant! A prop? A money issue? Geez, get a grip. It’s not like the people at the espresso stand put him there or make him stay there! He decided to stay there….for over 6 years! He’s got shelter, gets fed all of the time and apparently enjoys hanging with the ducks. He must be doing something right…go rooster go! Get over it!

  13. Tim on December 11th, 2009 12:17 pm

    No one mentions all the chickens and roosters that get killed in coops because they can’t get out when a preditor digs under the wire or gets in some other way. I’ve lost chickens because of this and so have my neighbors and I’m sure so’s a lot of folks. Unhappy or sad roosters don’t crow. Does he crow?

  14. kristin Parshall on December 11th, 2009 12:26 pm

    What shelter????? He doesn’t use the dog house at night, is there a chicken hotel somewhere that i don’t know about? And animals do not make decisions based on logic like you think, they use their instincts for survival. Just because he manages to survive doesn’t mean it’s an ideal situation, no more that a mangy alley cat who “chooses” to live behind a dumpster in a noisy city. How about answering the question; Why can’t someone provide a shelter that he actually uses, at night, that protects him and keeps him warm??? I’ve been waiting for this answer but no one has an answer for this….hmmmmm (and don’t mention the dog house again!)

  15. Jeff on December 11th, 2009 1:14 pm

    This rooster should be moved to a much warmer place…such as the fryer at KFC .

  16. dog house on December 11th, 2009 1:25 pm

    He is in it at times, I’ve seen him there, but it seems he prefers the tree. Guess he’s smart enough to know it’s safer. Bet a coop he can’t escape from but a racoon can rip open would be safer! Hmmmmmmm

  17. Sarah on December 11th, 2009 1:35 pm

    I think the rooster needs to be moved to some place where he won’t be able to attack people in wheelchairs! Do we need to be reminded this precious rooster has been in the paper before for attacking harmless folks just trying to get around? That a lady had to find a new bus stop becuase the roosters needs were put above hers. I am over this rooster and all for it being moved someplace warmer (maybe not Jeff’s suggestion though!).

  18. Mike Krutsinger on December 11th, 2009 1:40 pm

    On Wednesday, the Issaquah Police made the determination that McNugget belongs to the “Your Espresso” coffee stand since that is where he spends the majority of his time.
    Therefore “Your Espresso” is responsible for his welfare whether they want to be or not.

    We are advocating for a warm, safe environment for the animal
    The community of Issaquah and McNuggets owners are advocating to NOT provide a warm safe environment

    That’s the bottom line.

  19. Anonymous on December 11th, 2009 2:14 pm

    Really? This is what is of utmost importance to you and the community? Really? Are there no other important social issues that need addressing? Really? How very, very sad.

  20. Tansy Ragwort on December 11th, 2009 2:14 pm

    If the espresso business owner doesn’t want to give up McNugget to someone who will care for it properly by giving it a warm place to roost and daily food and water, then the very least she can do is get someone to build the rooster a coop with a heat lamp to keep him warm. I find it ludicrous and inhumane that she continues to keep McNugget suffering in this record-breaking cold weather. Why? For the amusement of her customers? If she really cared for this creature, she’d be more attentive to his needs. Shame on you lady. And this comment is also aimed at The Grange for not ensuring that this rooster didn’t escape from their premises in the first place. Since he flew the coop, why not donate one of the coops from the store?

  21. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 2:16 pm

    Dear Concerned Citizen,

    The offer of warmth was made but declined. We offered to provide a warm environment until the weather improved but they would not allow him to have this.

  22. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 2:24 pm

    Tina,
    The only cause we are trying to promote is the welfare of this rooster. Also, Tina, why do you bother to put your chickens in a coop. Why does the Grange sell them? Any class you take or any “informed” person will tell you they do better when protected from the elements. Yes, he manages to survive. People manage to survive cancer but don’t want to go through it every year. I suggest you become better informed about how to care for a chicken.

  23. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 2:39 pm

    Dear Anonymous,

    This is a cop out comment. Most people who you see caring about animal causes also care and volunteer with other causes including human and environmental issues. I have found that people that make comments like the one you made generally do not contribute in a meaningful way. It is the 20/80 rule. 20% of the people care and volunteer and 80% just complain. I suspect you are in the 80% group.

  24. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 3:02 pm

    Never be afraid to do what’s right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society’s punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way. ~~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

  25. McNugget Family Member on December 11th, 2009 3:31 pm

    To all who are reading this without a second side of the story please keep in mind that McNuggets well being will be put first. This article was written with only half the truth put forward. The day of the incident was a blown out scream fest that was not needed. Not one of us there called the people Terrorists or bad people for wanting Nugget in a warmer condition. Not one of us yelled or raised or voices we were simply stating they have no right to take McNugget from his supportive community. And FYI we don’t make money off of him or use him as a prop of any kind and that is completely ridiculous and ignorant of any person to say. Anyone who has been coming to our coffee stand would know that we are girls with Heart and love for our customers and community. We are a stand that represents family, love, trust, compassion, respect for people of all types and animals. We have been feeding birds of all types that drop by and visit for years. McNugget is no exception, he get 3 meals a day fresh water and companionship from all that love and care for him. McNugget has had the greatest gift of freedom and has thrived for years. In no way do we cause him in any harm or danger. If need be I will locate McNugget to my 5 acres for the winter but I can guarantee he will be back for the summer. I feel sad by the fact that there are people out there who can listen to one side of a story and completely write us off as bad neglectful money hungry citizens, when we have been doing right by the community and also our dear friend McNugget. Please keep in mind McNugget chose to live with us at the coffee stand and the Grange has been the supplier of food for more than 5 years doing all they can for him to support him. We thank The Grange for all they do and appreciate it all. Thanks to all who have worried about McNugget and helped chip in by feeding him.

    Please know that us girls love what we do and love the people who support our little coffee family. We thank you for the support of McNugget ….

  26. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 3:57 pm

    McNugget Family.
    Yes! NEED BE. Take him to a safe, warm place for the winter. Why in the world didn’t you do that before? We are also, loving, compassionate people and all we want is for McNugget to be warm and safe. We did not chose to fight with you and told you of our intent.
    The comments from you and the Grange people were:
    HE IS OKAY! Should we rescue all the birds in the trees? The people like seeing him when they come to the coffee stand. If he doesn’t make it through the winter, that’s the way it is! The Grange GM actually said something like, “well he is just a rooster, I eat them. ” It was very clear that he places little concern toward rooster comfort.
    This is the story. Your side is just excuses! You can say all you want making claims that you “love” him but actions speak much louder. That is all we are saying. Just take care of him. It is more than giving him food.

    You also called the police on us which is a first for all of us. Just for trying to help a freezing rooster!!!

    And you are mistaken, we were called terrorists by the owner of the coffee stand when we called her the next day, and the girl from the Grange called us crazy PETA people. We are just ordinary caring citizens who are trying to help a sweet vulnerable creature.

  27. Your Espresso Customer on December 11th, 2009 4:00 pm

    Listen to yourselves people. Find something better to do than sit around and verbally abuse innocent people. How dare any of you think that you’re high enough to say and make up such things. ..

    I have been going to Your Espresso for several years and McNugget has been a happy family member since I can remember. The ladies at the stand were raised with horses, goats, dogs, AND chickens and they have never been the neglecting type. They are loving, heart felt woman who care about every detail on love and respect. Every time I have gone to the coffee stand, his food and water dish has been full. They even let their customers feed him and he loves it.
    So stop your crying and get a life. McNugget is happy where he is and he always will be. If he wasn’t, he’d do something about just like how he did when he left his previous home.

    If you are really wasting your time and sleep over this, you are truly a sad sad person. Go yell at the air that kills innocent animals every day from freezing and overheating conditions, cause it’s the same situation. As a matter of fact, take the time you’re spending on this at a job that will pay you enough to build a whole animal planet where you can bathe, pamper, and love them all you want.

    Bottom line, Your Espresso and its employees are wonderful people who don’t deserve BS such as this.

    Thanks you ladies at Your Espresso for always putting a smile on my face just when I need it the most!

  28. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:02 pm

    One more thing. The girl from the Grange with the long brown hair walked up to our group yelling LEAVE THE ROOSTER ALONE!!! The customer who arrived was definitely yelling MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!

  29. Your Espresso owner on December 11th, 2009 4:10 pm

    Your voices are being heard. McNugget will have a new home until his new coop is ready to go (pendng city approval) or until spring. Thanks to the GM at The Grange for donating this for McNugget. As for the falsifications of this article, I do not place blame on the lies Kristin Parshell and her friends put forth, but on the journalist for writing an article without speaking to all sources and getting all facts. Thanks for all the support from The Grange staff and my caring customers and employees.

  30. McNugget Family Member on December 11th, 2009 4:14 pm

    Let me first start by saying I never called the police on you, know the story before you assume. And we never said ”oh he is just a rooster so he will be fine” I would never think that or every say that. If any statement seemed like that I was simply trying to say he is a rooster and roosters do live outside year round in many places. McNugget will have a nice new chicken coup built and donated by The Grange equipped with a heating lamp. I feel very sad by the fact that you could not contact us first and resolve the matter like adults and with kindness. I am not the type to fight or start fights with people doing great things for animals because I consider myself a person who shares that same feeling you do. From our point of view we see people on business property with nests trying to steel a family member without permission so of course I am gonna put a stop to it. Maybe next time you should contact someone first before going to the paper to start an even bigger fight than before. It is all ludicrous and could have been resolved in a different manner. We thank you for the concern on McNuggets health and well being.

  31. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:18 pm

    To Your Espresso Customer
    I rest my case! This was exactly the attitude and hostility we encountered.

  32. Ace on December 11th, 2009 4:18 pm

    McNugget has been living there for 5+ years and THRIVING. He has been there so long he is not a pet but a wild animal. Just because he is more gentle than what most people consider “wild” doesn’t mean his is tame or a pet. Even if the staff of Your Espresso didn’t feed him or even if he had no shelter, he would still survive. Why not try to “save” the pigeons or the ducks? Why not try to “save” the salmon? What about the squirrels? What about every other animal that resides in the nearby woods? Why decide all of a sudden to save an animal that is just fine where he is? Just because he is unique and stands out doesn’t mean he doesn’t belong right where he is. He has a proper home, the home HE HAS CHOSEN. He chooses to live there, no one has forced him to stay on that property. He has no collar or fence, he is free to go where HE WISHES. I truly believe if he is taken from his environment where he is at home and comfortable, he will suffer more than if he is left alone. He managed to make it through last winter just fine with all the cold and snow and ice. His well-being is not at stake seeing as how he has thrived right where he is for YEARS. He doesn’t “manage to survive”, he thrives. If he wasn’t happy where he is, he would LEAVE on his own. Like I said, no one is forcing him to stay. Animals find a way to get what they need and he seems perfectly content right where he is. Yes, there are “proper ways to care for chickens” but he is not a normal chicken. He has been in the elements for the last several years and is doing great.

    I honestly don’t see why this is such a big concern all of a sudden. Where is the concern for people in similar situations? I wonder if ya’ll would be so compassionate to a person that needs it? Would you stop and offer a ride to someone walking because they don’t have other means of transportation in this weather? Would you help pay someone’s gas bill if they can’t afford it? To be completely blunt, there are far more people suffering in this weather than that rooster and yet, where is the protest for them? Aren’t people more important? Why not put all this effort towards helping the homeless? The owner of Your Espresso has been collecting coats and blankets to take to the Gospel Mission in Seattle, what have you been doing to help your fellow man?

    Oh and Tim, he crows all the time, he is definitely a happy bird. :)

  33. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:29 pm

    ACE,
    Please read my comment to annonymous. You obviously are in the 80% group.
    Also, where the heck else is he going to go? It does not mean he is thriving! You also are terribly misinformed and misguided about his needs. Again, very typical of someone putting human emotion on an animal. They operate on a survival instinct not logic.

  34. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:40 pm

    McNugget Family,

    That is very good news about the coop. We had no intention of causing a fight with you. I DID go to the Grange to discuss the issue as our group was informed that they were the caretakers. The blong lady, Roxy, I believe is her name, said, “Yes, it is too cold for him. If you can catch him, then by all means help him out”. When we attempted to do that, you said, “that is a general concensus not her decision.” And again, on a stack of bibles, you said HE IS OKAY. SHOULD WE SAVE ALL THE BIRDS IN THE TREES. HE GOES UP THERE AND DOES FINE. When we said there was no protection, we were met with more ridiculous comments about him being just fine. The lady in the car was especially vocal about this. I have a feeling she wrote the previous mean post.
    Again, all we want is for him (or any human or animal) to be given what he deserves, comfort, safety and food. It might seem to you that this is our only focus but I can assure you that while we care very much about McNugget, we are very busy volunteers helping both humans and animals.
    My friends and I are extremely empathetic people and feel for anything or anyone who is suffering. Please, please, just help him and keep him warm and safe. I can’t get the vision out of my mind of him standing there shivering with his poor frozen comb. What a sweet little guy!

  35. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:41 pm

    Also, well…..someone called the police and it certainly wasn’t me. When they arrived they said they got more than one call. So…we can’t say exactly who did it, but it was certainly one of you.

  36. Your Espresso customer on December 11th, 2009 4:48 pm

    You all need to find something better to do. If you read the comment from the owner she states that they have found a new home for him. This should no longer be an issue. CASE CLOSED

    P.S. I do not go get coffee from this stand because they have a rooster…. its because they have great coffee and great customer service.

  37. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:49 pm

    To Espresso Stand Owner
    The reporter is not lying. He wrote what we told him. You were not there to experience what happened. Why in the world would we make something like this up? The evidence that we are telling the truth is there. Check the police report!

  38. Ace on December 11th, 2009 4:50 pm

    Debra,
    You are obviously ignorant and should not presume to make assumptions about people you don’t know and can’t possibly make an accurate or intelligent conclusion from that short blurp I wrote. AND you completely side-stepped my remarks about helping people in need. Where is your concern for them? I think it is YOU placing human emotion on the animal in question by thinking that you know better than everyone else what his needs are. People have said that more people would be outraged if he was a dog, but he’s not, he’s a rooster. His needs are different than that of a dog. His needs are provided for. He has shelter that he uses when he needs it and he doesn’t use it when he doesn’t need it. There are houses nearby with porches he goes under when it’s very cold. He finds what he needs as he needs it. What he doesn’t need is people trying to put him in a coop or cage where he can’t have the freedom he has now. He is a WILD animal, NOT a pet. He claims that area as his home. If he was taken out of his environment I believe he would suffer for it.

  39. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:51 pm

    Your Espresso Owner.

    Without this article, I can assure you, the Grange would not have donated the coop. I heard what they said and it was not in favor of this. Say what you want. Just take care of that poor rooster.

  40. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:55 pm

    Ace,
    Now who is making assumptions??

  41. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 4:58 pm

    Also, Ace,
    Just an FYI. I have a lot of experience with chickens. I have taken full classes on the subject and was a regular volunteer at Pasado’s Safehaven which involved caring for the chickens side by side with the vet.

  42. McNugget Family Member on December 11th, 2009 5:00 pm

    I admire all who take part in helping out the needy from animals to people, more power to you. McNuggets need will be met and he will continued to be loved. As for you stating I said “HE IS OKAY. SHOULD WE SAVE ALL THE BIRDS IN THE TREES. HE GOES UP THERE AND DOES FINE” is not entirely true. The gentlemen asked where he sleeps and I said he sleeps in the tree not the dog house. The dog house would not be safe so I meant he is better off sleeping above ground like all Roosters DO!!!!! And McNugget has done great sleeping up there that is the truth. Can we all please just stop this now! He will be getting a nice new coop soon. And it was not me that called the cops, that would not have been my choice of resolution.

  43. Erik on December 11th, 2009 5:29 pm

    Debra Welsh get a life . The thing is fine. Last winter was just as cold and the thing survived fine. Someone should put you in a coop under a heat lamp, I think maybe your the one thats to cold.

  44. Erik on December 11th, 2009 5:33 pm

    Expresso Patron – if you dont want to see the rooster sitting outside everyday then go somewhere else.

  45. kristin Parshall on December 11th, 2009 5:46 pm

    I’m happy to hear that McNugget will be transfered to a different location for the winter. In fact my friends and I will offer to help catch him (no funny business, you can bring dozens of friends too). Or if you can handle it yourself, no problem.
    This is good news and I’m sure McNugget will love a cozy warm spot :)

  46. Mike Krutsinger on December 11th, 2009 5:52 pm

    This is awesome. Proof that raising awareness about an issue makes things happen.

    My question….Chickens need to be placed in a coop at night, and let out in the morning. The coop must be secure and have a door. It will need to be cleaned on a regular basis. Who will be doing this?

    Who will come back during the late summer sunsets and secure his coop?

    Seems that it would make sense to place him in a new home. The 5 acres sounds nice. Maybe the Grange would donate a coop and heatlamp for the person with 5 acres and they can keep McNugget safe there?

    Also, I’d like to point out that having rescued several beaten, starved and abused dogs….most do not run away. They stay within their territory. Agree or disagree? This principle applies to all animals. Do the research and prove me wrong.

    We’d like to offer our help in rounding up McNugget. You’ll need a team of people to get that fast guy. We can bring experienced people and can asses his physical condition the moment he is caught.

    Now that we are all on the same team, let’s work together to get this guy into a safe warm environment so he can enjoy the rest of his years.

  47. Your Espresso Customer on December 11th, 2009 5:55 pm

    Debra Welsh = PSYCHO!!

  48. kristin Parshall on December 11th, 2009 6:04 pm

    ACE, you just hit the nail on the head that animal welfare people find very disturbing, “Aren’t people more important?” That question is sad. To answer that honestly; I don’t want anyone to suffer; not people, not animals or the environment, and I think all living beings deserve to be treated with love and compassion, equally. The reason some people concentrate more heavily on animal welfare causes is because animals TRULY have no voice.

  49. Mike Krutsinger on December 11th, 2009 6:21 pm

    For those who feel that their voices were not heard in the newspaper article….give the reporter a call. You have every right to have your side of the story printed.

  50. Debra Welsh on December 11th, 2009 7:15 pm

    McNugget Family
    Okay, let’s start new. I think we are now on the same page or getting there at least. I am certainly available to help catch the little speedy guy. I actually have a chicken catching talent. ;)

  51. McNugget family Member on December 11th, 2009 7:31 pm

    We will not need a team to catch McNugget. I am the only person he will let hold him. He is very friendly. I will have him on my property by Sunday so thanks to all that offered help but he will be no problem wrangling up.

  52. Mike Krutsinger on December 11th, 2009 8:27 pm

    Last question!

    Do you have a time frame in mind for placing McNugget into his new home? It would place our minds at ease if this happened sooner rather than later.

  53. jamie on December 11th, 2009 8:32 pm

    I have read all of the above comments and with this ongoing argument I have come to understand that everyone thinks that they know what’s best for McNugget. I have chickens myself and have learned a great deal about taking care of them over the past 7 years. I understand that people see them as food and that most people could care less about their well-being, but I also understand that this particular bird made his way to the espresso stand where he was adopted and fed. People need to understand that chickens are STUPID and that they (like every stray animal) will stay where the food is. It is not a logical decision, like someone else had already said. Where else is he going to go? I have to comment on “Tim’s” comment (Dec. 11, 2009 12:17 pm), about chickens being killed by predators. Chickens have no defense, so to say that they were killed because they could not get out of their chicken coop is just preposterous, because whether or not they made it out of the chicken coop, they still would not be able to out run their predator, besides, predators usually strike at night when they are docile and are not even able to try to escape. On other issues, chickens can survive in the cold, BUT, in these freezing temperatures one chicken alone may not be able to stay warm without others, which is where a heating lamp comes into play if you are not wanting more chickens. So on that note, I am glad to hear that he will be moved to a more suitable environment for the winter.

  54. Loyal customer on December 12th, 2009 4:56 am

    Really people!!!!!!!!!! This has really gotten crazy! McNugget is very happy where he is or he would have found a home on his own without the help of some so called concerned people. Why don’ t you demonstrators take some of these homeless people into your homes for a few nights on these freezing nights? The owner and her employees have a big heart and take care of McNugget and any other strays that come around. How you all going to feel when McNugget doesn’t make it being cooped up like you all want. That is what is happening per your suggestions and the owner and employees will be very sad when something happens to him because he is not used to or like being cooped up. How you going to feel then? I leave you with that thought!

  55. Anonymous on December 12th, 2009 8:32 am

    Dear Debra,

    My dear, you do make a lot of assumptions. It was apparent by your response at 2:39pm to a comment I made. It seems you have all day to sit at the computer justifying yourself, Wouldn’t that time be better spent volunteering at a homeless shelter?
    You are correct that most people do complain about situations instead of becoming involved, However to assume that of someone is ignorant. Life has been good to me therefore I have the freedom to do volunteer work full time. I volunteer a minimum of 40 hour a week, more during the holiday season. The hundreds of dollars you were so willing to spend for the wild rooster would be greatly appreciated at your local food bank. They are in desperate need right now. Wouldn’t that make a much bigger impact on society and help many, many more people than this crusade to help a rooster?
    Think about it dear, and decide where your priorities lie and how important this rukus over a rooster really is.

  56. Anonymous on December 12th, 2009 8:33 am

    Debra Welsh…get a life.

  57. Anonymous on December 12th, 2009 9:29 am

    Why doesn’t the caged bird sing?

  58. McNugget family member on December 12th, 2009 11:05 am

    I’m glad everything is getting worked out, honestly I think we who have loved Nugget for so many years were scared that someone would take him (I’m still scared). I would hate to think of him being taken from his territory, if you see him here every day he acts like he owns the place and he has free reign. I really feel that this is his home and if he were taken it would really devastate him. I understand why people are concerned, it has been really cold, and as far as I know he will be getting a coup, although I still think he’s more safe in the tree because it protects him from other animals.

    For the person who asked if he crowes, yes he crowes all morning long every day, and usually at night too! I think he is a happy little rooster!

    Thanks for everyone’s support and concern!! :)

  59. Your Espresso Owner on December 12th, 2009 11:29 am

    I just got off the phone with Renton Animal Control and these PROFESIONALS said leave the Rooster alone and keep him where he is at.

  60. Ace on December 12th, 2009 2:26 pm

    btw, he CAN get away from predators if he isn’t cooped up, he can FLY! He is frequently seen atop the roof of Staples and across the street on top of Darigold…

  61. Coffee Patron on December 12th, 2009 2:37 pm

    Yes, that’s what the professionals have said…I called them too. However the would be chicken thieves are so egotistical that they do not believe anyone knows more about anything than they do. A sure sign of ignorance and intellect.

  62. Anonymous on December 12th, 2009 2:41 pm

    I believe Coffee Patron meant a sure sign of ignorance and lack of intellect…that would be more apt.

  63. Mrs Miller on December 12th, 2009 2:48 pm

    God save us from the Kristen Parshalls and Debra Welshs of the world. These two radical do gooders would have chipmunks wearing sweaters and birds with beak protecters.

    McNugget is not a pet. As charismatic as he is; he is llivestock. Anyone who has grown up raising chickens knows that the cold is not as serious an issue for chickens as predators. A coop is a call to a preditor that a meal is waiting for him. Raccoons can rip open even the best of coops. That coop will not be located where any human will hear his screams in the middle of the night.

    There will be no one to the rescue and Kristen and Debra will have his blood on there hands for their ignorant interference.

    A coop is a bad idea for this rooster at this location.

    Mcnugget is a surviver and knows that his best chance is up that tree where he goes every evening at dusk.

    Leave him alone!! Let him be a free chicken!!

  64. Anonymous on December 12th, 2009 3:08 pm

    hahahahahahahahahahaha…only in Seattle.

  65. Alyne on December 12th, 2009 4:48 pm

    While many claim to care about him, perhaps a look in the mirror would reveal people want him there for their amusement. Giving him a warm place out of the harsh winter weather, away from traffic, and kept safe from the threat of dog attacks is the unselfish thing to do and should make everyone happy – especially McNugget..

  66. Doni Plant on December 12th, 2009 4:53 pm

    I am a long-time customer of the espresso stand, and I was one of the people involved the day that these people were chasing McNugget in the parking lot with a net “to save him”. I was shocked when I read the article above because it was so one-sided and sounded a whole lot like the conversation I had with McNugget’s would-be “saviors”. First of all, McNugget could have been injured by the man who accompanied those two woman by him attempting to catch him with the net. Not only was dangerous to McNugget, but I’m sure it was terrifying for him as well. Another point I would like to set straight is I called the police. I did that because McNugget’s “saviors” were trying to save an animal who not only survives in the Staple’s parking lot, but he thrives there, and has for about 7 years. Myself, and the managers from the Grange were trying to explain to these people that he was not freezing, and was not being neglected. McNugget’s “saviors” were the only ones calling names, calling myself and the employees of nearby business names like, “ignorant”, “rednecks”, “hillbillies” and “white trash”. In frustration, I finally called one of them a “bleeding-heart trespasser”. It’s pretty clear to me that most of the comments posted here were posted by the “saviors” and their supporters. Sounds like the same stuff I heard on that day. One of the women, after giving me her “credentials” as a chicken expert, asked what my credentials were. I told her that I grew up on a farm (in Duvall) where we always had chickens and other farm animals. This is what I know about chickens. They, and most other birds, are equipped for cold weather. Birds have a coat of down underneath their feathers. Their feathers have a sort of oil on them that makes them waterproof. Have you ever seen a soaking wet bird, or chicken? No. Do these same rescuers want to rescue all of McNugget’s duck and pigeon friends too? Maybe they could rescue all the chickadees (tiny little birds), crows, and purple finches that live there too. McNugget has places to go to find shelter. He chose to live there, and has always been free to walk away. Look at his picture, he has spent many winters (and summers) there and is no worse for wear. He is the healthiest looking domestic rooster I’ve ever seen. He has a life far better than any other rooster in the area. He was not sold to the highest bidder for no other reason than for his own well-being. He is a free-range chicken, he has been there since he was a baby and is clearly very content there. He would not like being “couped” up. He’s quite remarkable for a chicken and is very sociable. He enjoys the company of the many caretakers that he has. There are several elderly people who visit him and treat him everyday, in addition to my coworkers, employees of Staples, the Grange, the owner of the espresso stand (located on the property where McNugget has lived for almost seven years) and all who pass through and come to know him. I called the police that day because those people who were trying to “save” him by chasing him around the parking lot with a fishing net, were trespassing, disrupting business and verbally abusing employees of nearby businesses who were only trying to explain that McNugget was indeed well loved and cared for, right there where he has always chosen to be. They were bound and determined to have their way, and still are it seems based on what I read here. I love animals too, always have. This bird does not need to be rescued. He’s thriving, right where he is. Now, it seems more like it’s a matter of you just getting your way since the police told you that would not be allowed to remove a healthy animal from the premises because you are not animal control. They also told you that you were not allowed to trespass when you were asked to leave, but refused (because you thought it would somehow benefit McNugget.to stick around and abuse and harass the people who were trying to stop you from chasing him around the parking lot and stealing something that wasn[t yours?)
    Perhaps if you had spoken to anyone present in a rational, respectful manner, your assistance would have been welcomed. From my point of view, you’re just more interested in getting your way now. Even if it means that you have to lie to the media to do it. Shame on you.

  67. Mike Krutsinger on December 12th, 2009 5:11 pm

    This is taken directly from the City of Renton website…..

    The following are instances that are not handled by the Renton Police Department, Animal Control Unit:

    Issues outside the city limits of Renton
    – If you live in King County (including unincorporated King County), please contact King County Animal Control

    So Espresso stand owner….call the right people and get the right facts. Roosters are illegal inside the Issaquah city limits…please check and prove me wrong.

    And when McNugget does get moved, whoever takes him carries full responsibility for his safety. If you cannot provide a safe environment for him, find someone who can.

  68. Mike Krutsinger on December 12th, 2009 6:16 pm

    McNugget goes across the street???

    How does he get across without getting nailed by a car?

    No one is advocating for McNugget to live in a coop, only be placed inside at night where it is warm and safe. A coop placed at the espresso stand would not be safe, we all agree on that.

    Could someone point me to some 3rd party documentation that shows roosters and chickens make educated, informed decisions on where to live? I’m looking, but can’t find anything.

  69. kristin Parshall on December 12th, 2009 6:47 pm

    Dioni, Give me a break. I didn’t say ONE THING to the reporter that was a lie. Why don’t you tell me what that was? And as soon as the cops asked us to step off the property we left so you’re full of it when you say we didn’t. Also, these chickens that you grew up with. Did they stay outside all night or did you provide them shelter? I’m sure you had a coop for them so don’t even try! And my “credentials” are working in animal rescue facilities for the past several years. I certainly know what chickens need in order to be healthy; the very basics are food, water and SHELTER.

    Now, for the rest of you people who keep bringing up the question; “why don’t you help the homeless?” I have a few questions for you; what are you doing to help the environment, what are you doing to help people in Africa, what are you doing to save endangered species, what are you doing to help rape victims, what are you doing to help the troops or 911 victims…..etc….should I go on!!!?? There are SO many different causes in the world. It’s quite an uneducated opinion that all of us should help the homeless and nothing else? Get over it!

    I also agree with Jamie, chickens do NOT make thoughtful decisions the way humans do. This is common sense but if I need to explain I will. The only reason McNugget roosts on a tree limb all night in freezing temperatures is to stay as far away from predators as possible. Those are his instincts, not logic (geez!) An animal will absolutely endure discomfort for the sake of survival. This does not mean he is warm or comfortable doing it! I can’t believe we’re still having a conversation about wether an animal feels cold when totally exposed to 12 degree weather!

  70. kristin Parshall on December 12th, 2009 6:59 pm

    I forgot to mention that I have offered to take McNugget. I have neighbors all around me who have chickens and they have had NO problems with any predators. We are in an very populated area, totally safe! Not to mention there are several neighborhood cats that have been free-roaming for years, even at night (not that I condone that) and they are all still here. If we had a wildlife problem they would have been toast a long time ago.

  71. McNugget family member on December 12th, 2009 8:01 pm

    Doni – Thank you! Great post!

    Mike – Seriously?? Just get over it already!

  72. Barbara B. on December 12th, 2009 10:08 pm

    I’m not sure what the big deal is here. If someone wants to adopt him as a pet and give him warm shelter, is that so bad? It seems to me that a lot of the people who want him to stay where he is, want it for selfish reasons. Shouldn’t his quality of life come first? Remember, winter hasn’t even official started yet…there’s a lot of cold weather ahead. Just my two cents :)

  73. Mike Krutsinger on December 12th, 2009 11:44 pm

    Doni Plant –

    McNugget is at risk of another attack by dog, coyote, cougar or person.

    How do you propose to ensure his 100% safety? You claim to care about him, but choose to leave him in a vulnerable environment – please clarify.

  74. Mrs Miller on December 13th, 2009 8:51 am

    To the McNugget family member who has offered to re-home our dear little friend; I say thank you.

    Even though I do not believe that he is in immanent danger living in the Staples parking lot; your solution seems to be the best in the light of all that has happened this past week.

    I will miss him terribly but this solution is better then allowing those ignorant idiots to terrorize the little guy by chasing him with nets and then jamming him into a coop of other chickens where he has not established his pecking order..

    I hope he fits in well in his new surroundings and has a couple of hens to amuse him.

  75. Tansy Ragwort on December 13th, 2009 9:22 am

    To Mrs. Miller: You don’t know much about building chicken coops, do you? It is indeed possible to build one that is racoon-proof. Racoons usually come out at night to prey on chickens, etc. If McNugeet was closed up in a warm coop at night, no racoon could get him. I should know because I’ve had chickens and no whereof I speak. I had a flock that liked to roost in a tree, and each night I made sure they were secured in their coop. I NEVER lost one to racoons. And had the rooster been housed in a coop and fenced in, he wouldn’t have had to endure an attack by a dog. Have you taken a look at his comb? I have heard that it looks as if he’s suffered some frost bite. Have you ever had frost bite? It hurts like hell.
    Shame on all you who think that McNugget is enjoying life as a “free chicken.” He’s a victim of the stupidity of those who think it’s cute to have a rooster running around the Staples lot. And shame on The Grange for not owning up to their responsibility. How did he escape from there in the first place? As for feeding him three times a day, give me a break! His water and feed dishes have been frequently seen EMPTY!

  76. Your Espresso Owner on December 13th, 2009 1:55 pm

    Mike, KING COUNTY ANIMAL CONTROL called me Sunday at 12:24 pm and informed me McNugget is fine where he is. Renton Animal Control just happened to be the first ones to answer on Saturday and I was calling for advice on the safety of McNugget. We are not horrible people and if King County Animal Control had told me McNugget needs to be moved from his current home I would without hesitation move him to my friends farm. I understand these people feel they are rescuing an animal from animal cruelty but that just is not the case here. I wish them luck and applaud them in their future rescuing of animals that actually need rescuing. Thank you, Michelle

  77. tanner puhlman on December 13th, 2009 2:15 pm

    people its my chiken leave him alone please hes fine and such a loveing little guy please just dont talk about it

  78. Debra Welsh on December 13th, 2009 2:24 pm

    Doni Plant,

    You are distorting and making things up on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin. You seem like a very angry person who likes to push people around. I will not address each of your comments because you just rambled on and on. The things I will say are these:

    We only care about McNugget and nothing you say can change that. I know that in my heart so nothing you say bothers me.

    We DID get permission to take him from, I believe her name is Roxy, at the Grange. She is a really nice person who is also reasonable and recognizes the need to find a safer place for HIM rather than only caring about his entertainment value for people like you.

    As soon as the police told us we needed to leave the espresso stand property, we did and you know that. I shop at Staples frequently so I assume that until they tell me I am not allowed there either, I can continue to do so.

    Again, as I told you, yes chickens can tolerate low temps but not as low as the teens. Also, they need protection from the elements, wind, rain, snow. And yes, as you said, he managed to survive….and as I said earlier, people survive cancer but don’t want to do it all the time.

    I am not going to get into this stupid insult combat with you any longer. I will only address facts about the condition of this rooster and his need for a better environment. Sling the personal insults if you must but I will not go there. I absolutely DID NOT call you or anyone else any name what so ever that afternoon.

    McNugget needs a safe, warm environment and that is what I am going to continue to say until he gets one!

  79. Debra Welsh on December 13th, 2009 4:04 pm

    I also meant to add a comment about the police. My dad and uncle were police chiefs for many years until they retired so I understand how hard their job is. I also understand that they were just doing their job. It is the first time anyone has ever called the police on me. When they said we were on the espresso stand’s property and the espresso stand wanted us to leave, I went right to my car and did so.

  80. Anonymous on December 13th, 2009 5:07 pm

    I would assume he flies over the street?

  81. Debra Welsh on December 14th, 2009 11:06 am

    Here is an actual PROFESSIONAL organization for facts on the needs of chickens and roosters. Here is a quote that is of note. “Below 20 degrees F, their combs and wattles can develop painful frostbite.”

    Here is a link to the United Poultry Concerns website:

    http://www.upc-online.org/home.html

    This organization has the “Best in America Rating” Certified by Independent Charities of America.

  82. Anonymous on December 15th, 2009 1:58 am

    It seems that if the “rescuers” had hundreds of dollars to offer for McNugget, they could have simply used that money to get some sort of warmer for his doghousel
    A heat lamp, straw or heated outdoor doghouse mat could work. Or use the money for a new coop next to the stand. McNugget likes living there so he should be allowed to stay.
    Michele (customer of grange supply) owner of may horses

  83. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 9:09 am

    Please find out the facts about the needs of chickens. KCACC is being eliminated. (See below links for starters.) You might want to check out why. They have made many poor decisions and have been unresponsive regarding animal welfare and Dow Constantine has said that has played into the decision to eliminate them. Just because they say leave him there, doesn’t mean it is right. Especially when there are other options. Please use common sense after checking the facts about how 10 degree weather, rain, snow, wind and predators impacts chickens.

    http://kcaccexposed.org
    http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/south_king/ken/news/79198467.html

  84. unknown on December 15th, 2009 10:41 am

    Some freaks have been spotted scouting out nugget’s roosting tree at night. If you drive by and notice them please call the cops. Thanks.
    Ps….don’t normal people go through proper authority when an animal needs rescuing instead of stealing….with a fishing net.

  85. unknown on December 15th, 2009 10:52 am

    Debtra, do these facts apply to the ducks that also live in the parking lot?

  86. Mike Krutsinger on December 15th, 2009 10:56 am

    Michele (customer of grange supply) owner of may horses,

    McNugget is not safe inside the doghouse at night. Wouldn’t you agree?

  87. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 11:13 am

    Unknown. I do not know anything about the ducks in the parking lot. I have never seen them. Are they wild or tame? Who do they belong to? Maybe you could do a little credible research if you are interested and let us all know what you find.

  88. kristin Parshall on December 15th, 2009 11:19 am

    It’s pretty sad that we are being attacked for simply trying to do a good deed. I hardly think the word PSYCHO should be used for people who care so much. NO ONE who claims to care about this rooster should ever want to deny him a better place to live. Honestly people, do you really think a parking lot is the VERY best home for him, that there is no room for improvement at all? People who insist that McNugget live the rest of his life risking frostbite and dog attacks should really think hard about this. In fact it seems to me that the dog attack alone should have been the eye-opener to make everyone think; he needs to get out of here and go somewhere safe.
    Also people need to stop mentioning the dog house as his safe haven. He does not use it at night. If he did he would be cornered by a predator so it’s not an appropriate option. What he needs is a coop, with a heat lamp for winter enclosed in a securely fenced area, along with hens. He needs access to filled feeders and a water container (which is not present where he is now), fresh organic produce, plus lots of green grass to run around in. All this needs to be set up on residential property, not in a retail location. Doesn’t this sound like a happy cushy life? What’s wrong with that?

  89. funkietoo on December 15th, 2009 11:53 am

    McNugget is a popular guy who is loved by many. It is also apparrent that everyone involved has his best interests at heart, believing their plan is best for him.

    It seems that the owners have worked out plan to keep McNugget warm during ultra cold days/nights. Wild or even domestic [stray] animals, stake out their territory based on food, water, shelter, etc. via instinct, not intellect. Like feral and semi-feral cats, McNugget is attached to his territory; he is not homeless; wild/feral animals experience stress when moved and sometimes ‘run’ away from the new home if not contained for imprinting–again causing stress.

    There are many good, animal-smart people at KCACC, so please don’t assume they are all bad and know nothing. The potential closing of KCACC is a complex, multi-faceted situation that has no easy solution….but that is for an entirely different posting and discussion.

  90. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 12:16 pm

    funkietoo
    Thank you for recognizing that this conversation is about what is best for McNugget and keeping it respectful. The expresso stand owner was going to take him to a warm, safe place but changed her mind after talking to KCACC. I agree that there are good people at KCACC but they certainly have had many, many serious complaints. I only mentioned this KCACC issue to make a point that they might not have gotten the best advice on behalf of McNugget. Making their own decision after learning the facts about the need for shelter, warmth, and protection from predators would be better than just what KCACC says.
    We are all waiting for more information about the coop that the Grange say they will provide for him. I say he would be better off in a safe, warm place until this decision is made and the coop is provided.

  91. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 12:22 pm

    funkietoo
    I also meant to say that when I volunteered at Pasado’s Safehaven, there were many chickens and roosters that came from a variety of environments. They came from living like McNugget to factory farms. Many were pets who needed a new home. They always adapted to the new environment and I do not know of any who ran away or tried to return to their new home. Yes, it is stressful at first, but they quickly adapt and do very well in their safe and caring new world.

  92. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 12:23 pm

    Re: Last comment: I meant old home.

  93. Anonymous on December 15th, 2009 12:58 pm

    Debra if you have not seen the ducks in the parking lot hanging out with the rooster then you really know nothing about him and are basing all of your “knowledge and concern” on assumtions….and you’re making an ass out of yourself. The ducks are wild…same as the rooster. And he has his flock, his ducks and pigeons. He’s never been domesticated. He ran away from a little boy while the kid was visiting the Grange. Never was theirs. You are making a mountain out of a molehill for no other reason than to make yourself and your foolish friends seem like saviors. Misguided is what you are. Also TO ANYONE WHO DRIVES BY THE ESPRESSO STAND AT NIGHT…I’ve seen people hanging around the stand at night, if you do CALL THE POLICE.

  94. Anonymous on December 15th, 2009 1:51 pm

    I would like to know how you all know what chickens think, because Kristin, you and Mike, and Debra seem to think you do. Are you part chicken? Did you create them? Did you evolve from chickens? You keep saying things like “Chickens do this because…” or “Chickens think this way or that way”. Quite frankly, to say that you know what he’s thinking or why he does things is mighty presumptuous and pompous. You can’t possibly say beyond a shadow of a doubt what chickens think or the motives behind their actions because they can’t tell you what’s going on inside their brains. This has gotten ridiculous, drop it.

    p.s. McNugget usually gets across the street by flying, you obviously don’t know him very well if you didn’t know that…

  95. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 2:19 pm

    Anonymous
    You comments are not helpful and are, honestly, just hostile.

  96. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 2:23 pm

    Anonymous
    Also, based on your silly comments…I think you are just making up the story about people hanging around the parking lot to cause trouble. Geez, isn’t it a place of business? I think Staples is actually open at night. Watch out! If you are shopping at Staples, you might see the police show up on your way back to the car.

  97. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 2:32 pm

    Anonymous
    Wild ducks are found in nature naturally in WA. Roosters are not. They are there because someone was careless or neglectful. He is still there because he doesn’t have anywhere else to go without human help.
    Repost:
    Here is an actual PROFESSIONAL organization for facts on the needs of chickens and roosters. Here is a quote that is of note. “Below 20 degrees F, their combs and wattles can develop painful frostbite.”

    Here is a link to the United Poultry Concerns website:

    http://www.upc-online.org/home.html

    This organization has the “Best in America Rating” Certified by Independent Charities of America

  98. Anonymous on December 15th, 2009 2:41 pm

    I said nothing hostile. YOU are ridiculous.

  99. Paula on December 15th, 2009 3:39 pm

    I also grew up on a farm and we had chickens. We had Rhode Island reds and Bantams( Banty chickens). We had a Chicken coop which we closed up at night and we fed our chickens. The bantys would come into the chicken yard and eat and sometimes even scratch around for the day, but at night they roosted in the trees. This was where they chose to roost. I guess we didn’t go to the same “Chicken classes” that you did so we didn’t know that they shouldn’t be roosting in the trees instead of the Chicken coop. The Rhode Island reds stayed in the chicken coop.
    Gee, I wish that someone back then had tried to barge onto our property and tried to catch our chickens with a fish net. What were you thinking. That very act could have scared that little rooster to death. He looks like he is in very good shape. His comb does not look frostbitten to me in the least. He is fed and watered and cared about by many people.
    I remember a few years ago PETA came to the Sultan area in the middle of the night and released hundreds of mink. I guess they thought what they were doing while they were trespassing on someone’s land and releasing someone’s property that was cared for, was for the benefit of the mink. On my way to work the morning after the GREAT rescue of the mink, I stopped counting at 80 dead mink on Highway 2 in a 1/2 mile stretch of roadway . For the remainder of the week there were more rescued mink dead on the road every day. I think that perhaps the rescuers didn’t really know what they were doing or maybe they just thought it was more humane to release these little animals that had not ever fended for thierselves.
    I think that McNugget has become your cause.
    I also think that (in reading all of your negative replies to anyone whose opinion differs from yours) you just may have called the people at the Coffee stand the names that were in the previous notes. You and your two friends have exposed yourselves in your replies by writing that people are ignorant and members of your 80-20 theory. You have no business judging people or telling them that their opinions are wrong just because they do not agree with you.

  100. Mike Krutsinger on December 15th, 2009 3:51 pm

    Back to the subject that started this whole news article….

    We are asking the owner of McNugget, whoever that may be, to provide him with a safe, warm environment. Will someone please step forward and claim ownership?

  101. kristin parshall on December 15th, 2009 3:55 pm

    Dear Anonymous: Are you serious, really? McNugget is a wild chicken? Do you know what a wild animal is? It is an animal that is native to whatever region your referring to, in this case – the northwest. Wildlife in the northwest does not include chickens anymore than it includes camels. And for your other question I have made it CRYSTAL clear that chickens do not think, use logic, or make decisions. Like ALL animals,they do what they do entirley for instictual reasons and for survival. No where did I make the claim that I know what they think. Now, having said that, it does not mean that I don’t know what they need to be safe and healthy…..big difference!

  102. kristin parshall on December 15th, 2009 4:10 pm

    Paula, I have also had experiences with banties working at an animal rescue sanctuary and when I grew up with chickens as a kid. They chose to head to the barns at dusk all on their own. My neighbor has chickens and I believe all of them are banties. They go into their coop every night. Whatever you did with your chickens is your own experience, but it is safer to put them away at night. They’re just like any other pet; you take a few extra precautions to protect their safety. Some people have cats that “want” to stay outside all night but they don’t realize the dangers associated with doing that. Therefore, a responsible, loving owner would keep them in to protect them. Same thing. Oh – by the way, ditto on you comment about people being negative because they’re opinion differs from yours. There’s plenty of that coming our way.
    About the minks, I know nothing about this and we are not PETA.

  103. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 4:10 pm

    Paula,
    This blog is full of disagreements on both sides. I have not seen anyone include credible and researched information in support of leaving McNugget out in 10 degree weather. If someone finds it, please share. I am relying on professional information about chickens and that is why I included a link to United Poultry Concerns. I am not making anything up that I have not experienced myself or researched from credible sources. I have read from credible sources that some chickens are more cold tolerant than others but I have not found any source that says they tolerate temps in the teens without shelter from the elements. The chickens and roosters at Pasado’s would sometimes go into the trees but on very cold nights, they ran to the coop as soon as I opened the door, without fail.

    On the cold day last week with temps around 20 degrees and around 10 at night, McNugget was taking food from me very sweetly while shivering. He had frost on his comb and around his eyes and he just looked miserable.

  104. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 4:23 pm

    Paula,

    Also, I have no idea why you are talking about PETA and the mink. I don’t know anything about that and am not part of PETA.

  105. Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 4:27 pm

    Paula,
    Actually, now that I think of it, McNugget is sort of in the same boat as the Mink who were turned lose. They weren’t wild either.

  106. Mike Krutsinger on December 15th, 2009 5:07 pm

    It’s amazing….when you give people the facts they just ignore them.

    How do you plan to keep your beloved rooster out of the jaws of the next dog that comes along?

    Is asking for McNuggets insured safety just too radical for the residents of Issaquah? Why won’t anyone answer this question?

  107. Animal Lover 100% on December 15th, 2009 5:29 pm

    I find it interesting the people who are writing in anonymous or with made up names are the ones who are not in reality. If you are going to call people names at least don’t be a coward by hiding your name.
    FYI: You are playing with the big boys when it comes to animal welfare.

  108. Doni Plant on December 15th, 2009 8:06 pm

    Debra! Wow! Have you been sitting on your keyboard all day? Some of your posts are less than 10 minutes apart, and it seems like there are two or three replies from you for each post from someone else. It’s looking like this has become an obsession for you. That’s the reason it was impossible to communicate with you in the parking lot that day, because you were so obsessed with your own opinions and agenda about the rooster that you would not even give anyone else the courtesy of explaining anything about the rooster to you. I came here to set the record straight, not post fiction. Everything in my previous post was factual, and everything in this post will be factual too. I’ll try to keep it brief for you this time. Here’s the facts:

    1. McNugget could have been seriously injured while being chased around the parking lot with a net. He could of been injured by the net, or from running away from you. A chicken expert, such as yourself, should know that.
    2. I never said that you refused the leave after the police arrived. I called the police because you refused to leave. The employee that was working in the coffee stand asked you to leave and I asked you to leave and told you that you couldn’t take the rooster. You didn’t leave. You stayed and continued to insist that you would be taking the rooster. You were being verbally abusive to the people who were explaining to you that you couldn’t take him, and you were making a scene and that’s why the police were called.
    3. McNugget’s comb is not frostbitten or damaged in any way. I saw him today, I was two feet away from him. His comb is perfect, red and perfectly shaped. He was happily digging around for bugs and worms and looked perfectly fit. I did mention that I grew up on farm. Did I mention that our chickens, ducks and geese sometimes slept (roosted) with their heads tucked under their wings? They did. A chicken expert, such as yourself, would know that.

    This is not a fact, just my opinion–which I am just as entitled to as you are to yours’. I read where you posted that you were feeding McNugget at 10:00 at night??? Chickens roost at night, I seriously doubt that he would leave his roost at night to accept food from you. Chickens don’t feed at night, they roost to stay say from predators–weasles, rats, racoons and chicken thieves and the like. I certainly hope that you were there at 10:00 at night on a day before the police told you to stay away, because if it was one of the days that was after the police spoke to you, you would have been trespassing. I heard them tell you that the owner of the property did not want you there and that you were not supposed to come back. Why on earth would a chicken expert, such as yourself, go feed a chicken at 10:00 at night when they would be roosting? Are you sure you weren’t there for a more sinister reason? I think you should respect other people’s property rights and stay away like the police told you to.

    I love animals too and I really like that little chicken. I actually live on the same farm that I grew up on in Duvall. I have a barn and a chicken coop. If I thought that McNugget would be better off somewhere else, I would have asked the owner of the coffee stand to let me take him home. I think he’s in extremely good health, right where he is. I think that moving him would only do harm. This is a healthy, happy rooster who DOES NOT NEED YOU, or anyone else, to rescue him. He is quite content and is well-fed, watered and sheltered. After reading that you want to take him to your own home, I’m beginning to think that you just want him for a pet for yourself. Honestly, I think you need to take a step back and get some perspective on this.

  109. Ace on December 16th, 2009 10:10 am

    Hear! Hear! Doni! I agree with you completely! Well put!

  110. Debra Welsh on December 16th, 2009 10:16 am

    Dori,
    Again, you are using very mean words and accusing people of doing the things that you do yourself. Not that it is your business, but I work at home in my office. Also, I post short notes because most people won’t read the long ones! I hear your opinion but you don’t hear mine at all. We are going to just have to disagree on this because we are not going to get anywhere. You are not a decision maker on this issue but, of course, you are entitled to your opinion.

  111. Ace on December 16th, 2009 10:27 am

    what was mean about what she said? unless you are very thin-skinned, like soap-bubble thin, I don’t think you can classify anything she said as “mean” straightforward and blunt, yes, but not mean.

  112. Debra Welsh on December 16th, 2009 10:33 am

    Dori,
    I don’t know what you are talking about when you say I was feeding him at 10pm. You misread my post. I said it was 10 degrees at night. I was feeding him at 2pm in the afternoon. Sinister? Not a bone in my body. You don’t know me at all.

  113. Cindy Mason on December 16th, 2009 10:41 am

    I am an occasional espresso stand customer and see McNugget when I drive through. I always wondered why he is there. Now, that I read all this, it seems to me that he is just there for human enjoyment. Boy, if someone is willing to give him a good home, why in the world don’t you let him go? It is amazing that the McNugget family is being so hateful to people who are offering him a luxury life. It seems that after 5 years of struggling against the weather and animal attacks, you would find it in your heart to provide a better home for him. I must say that the comments by the McNugget people don’t make much sense. I have a feeling that there are lots of people who feel the same as me but aren’t posting.

  114. kristin Parshall on December 16th, 2009 11:35 am

    Doni, and the rest of you who claim to be animal lovers. Do you eat chicken?? Because you might want to educate yourself on the horribly abusive treatment of animals in factory farming, and chickens have been deemed to be one of the worst victims. So, please, spare me! Think about that when you bite into chicken flesh at dinner tonight.

  115. Paula on December 16th, 2009 12:01 pm

    Debra,
    Here is a copy and pasted portion of the post that you addressed to me on the 15th. Go back and read it for yourself.
    Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 4:10 pm Paula,

    On the cold day last week with temps around 20 degrees and around 10 at night, McNugget was taking food from me very sweetly while shivering. He had frost on his comb and around his eyes and he just looked miserable.

    If you are so worried about people saying mean things in their posts perhaps you should review some of the things you have posted. You have badmouthed EVERYONE that has a different opinion than you, calling them ignorant.
    I’m thinking that if this whole thing had been approached properly, much of this could have been avoided. The proper thing for Debra and her chicken chasing crew would have been to go to the Coffee stand and talk to them instead of coming in there gangbusters, net in hand, and chasing that poor little scared rooster.
    Maybe your intentions are good, but the delivery has been terrible. Step back and think about how you would feel if someone came onto your property, not once, but on other occasions, if what I’ve read is true, fishnet in hand, to remove something of yours that you felt was doing just fine and being cared for in a way that you felt was proper. Then think about how you would feel if those same people just badmouthed you all over the place saying terrible things about you. I bet you wouldn’t like it either.
    It sounds to me that McNugget has several very good options if he does indeed need to be moved and you should just remove yourself from the situation.
    I think you and your net wielding friends have caused him enough stress.
    By the way, I didn’t accuse you of being with the mink “rescuers”, I used it as an example. Sometimes when someone stops thinking about the good they are trying to accomplish and just thinks about “their cause” you really aren’t helping. IN the case of the mink, they died for PETA’s cause. What PETA decided to do was not the best thing for them.
    Maybe what you are trying to do to McNugget is not the best thing for him.
    That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

    Doni,
    Way to go! I don’t think you said anything in your latest post that should have been taken as mean, just factual as you said it would be. Since you were also present at the scene I tend to believe that what you are saying is factual. I tend to believe what you are saying because of the nature of Debra’s posts.
    I think McNugget is fine where he is. He is a beautiful, social little rooster and it is very obvious by the posts that many people care about him and provide for his well being.

  116. Doni Plant on December 16th, 2009 1:32 pm

    Debra, honestly, I wasn’t trying to be mean. I re-read your post and now realize that you were trying to say 10 degrees at night, not 10:00 o’clock. It wasn’t clear to me and I apologize for the miscommunication. However, it is a fact that McNugget is not unhealthy, abused or neglected in any way. He’s very happy where he is. I don’t understand why you still insist upon moving him after you’ve been told that you are not allowed to do that.

  117. Mike Krutsinger on December 16th, 2009 1:37 pm

    Doni,

    Since you stated that you told us we could not take McNugget, are you claiming ownership?

    ” I asked you to leave and told you that you couldn’t take the rooster.” – Doni Plant

  118. kristin Parshall on December 16th, 2009 2:50 pm
  119. Debra Welsh on December 16th, 2009 3:33 pm

    Ace
    There is no way that Dori or you can say anything that could penetrate my skin. I was commenting about the nature of her comments. Nothing she said showed any meaningful contribution, it was just nasty talk.
    MuNugget needs a warm, safe home and that is what is important to me.

  120. Concerned citizen on December 16th, 2009 4:17 pm

    Every animal deserves proper food, shelter and care. Clearly, proper shelter for McNugget includes a heat lamp. It’s disturbing that his welfare takes second to the espresso stand’s need for a parking lot mascot. Stranger still is the fact that employees of the Grange that not only sells pet supplies, but also hangs up posters for different animal rescue groups, were so adamantly against McNugget getting extra care during extremely cold days and nights. I guess I just assumed that they were animal lovers too. I truely hope the owner of the Grange and the espresso stand rethink this whole issue and supply McNugget with the care and shelter he requires. It’s not too late to do the right thing.

  121. Brendan on December 16th, 2009 5:47 pm

    if this were a dog or a cat there would be no debate. This despite the fact that dogs and cats too can go “wild”. But because it’s a rooster, many people think he should be treated differently and that it’s ok for him to be outside in the elements.

    And of course KCAC says leave him there! They simply have no idea what to do with him (cant even keep cats and dogs now!) and are not trained at ALL to handle roosters. So it’s easier to just say, “let him be”.
    (And I know somewhat of that which I speak, I’m a graduate of the King County Animal Control Officers Academy AND the co-founder of a farm animal sanctuary.)

    MOST of the year, his being outside isn’t an issue. But during the cold winter months, NO animal willingly stays out in the elements if they have somewhere better to go. Which he doesn’t.
    If the Coffee shop personnel and other locals cared about him as much as they say they do, they would put up a shelter, on the tree at the base of the branch that he roosts at during the night and he’d at least then be able to be sheltered while still staying relatively safe.
    But I haven’t heard them suggest that yet… Or did I miss it?…

  122. Mike Krutsinger on December 16th, 2009 6:56 pm

    Doni,

    Please tell the truth about the fishing net. No one was running around the parking lot with a fishing net.

  123. Food for thought! on December 17th, 2009 7:36 am

    I have an answer to why someone might be around trying to “feed” a rooster in the dark of the night Doni Plant. Because they are easier to catch if you can quietly sneak up on them in the dark as they sleep. Or maybe she thought without the interference of others… she could sweet talk the bird and bride it with some food while someone else snatched it from behind. Could someone have finally taken to time to do a little homework about roosters and their habits? If so she should have delved a little further and let her mind absorb all of the information and facts about roosters, their habits and natural survival instincts. Could have allowed her to finally end this theatrical charade and leave that bird along.

  124. Food for thought! on December 17th, 2009 8:11 am

    Sorry DeDra… Doni did NOT misread you at all. Copied and pasted your exact post. So what is the story now? You can’t keep up with the things that you write ONLY because you “think” it sounds good and adds some sympathy factors to your dramatical and fictional reenactment of events? You know what they say… it is easy to stick to the actual facts no matter how many times they are told because they do not change. It is the tangled web of lies that get a little trickier to re-account without messing up. I do believe you have just exposed yourself. Or can you explain how you have forgotten being out in the freezing cold at night feeding this poor shivering rooster? Brain freeze?
    ……………..
    Debra Welsh on December 15th, 2009 4:10 pm Paula,
    This blog is full of disagreements on both sides. I have not seen anyone include credible and researched information in support of leaving McNugget out in 10 degree weather. If someone finds it, please share. I am relying on professional information about chickens and that is why I included a link to United Poultry Concerns. I am not making anything up that I have not experienced myself or researched from credible sources. I have read from credible sources that some chickens are more cold tolerant than others but I have not found any source that says they tolerate temps in the teens without shelter from the elements. The chickens and roosters at Pasado’s would sometimes go into the trees but on very cold nights, they ran to the coop as soon as I opened the door, without fail.

    On the cold day last week with temps around 20 degrees *****and around 10 at night,***** McNugget was taking food from me very sweetly while shivering. He had frost on his comb and around his eyes and he just looked miserable.

  125. Mike Krutsinger on December 17th, 2009 11:19 am

    Everyone is so sidetracked on “who said what”.

    I agree with Debra, McNugget needs a warm, safe place to live.

    Living at the espresso stand leaves him vulnerable to attack from another dog or predator. Why are some people here advocating that he stay in this situation?

  126. Mike Krutsinger on December 17th, 2009 11:24 am

    Paula –

    You said
    “I’m thinking that if this whole thing had been approached properly, much of this could have been avoided. The proper thing for Debra and her chicken chasing crew would have been to go to the Coffee stand and talk to them instead of coming in there gangbusters, net in hand, and chasing that poor little scared rooster.”

    1. We started by talking to the coffee stand on tuesday. They told us he was owned by the grange and to talk to them
    2. Coffee shop called the grange and an employee came over and told us we could NOT take him, however also said he was NOT theirs.
    3. Wednesday we go back to the grange and speak with another employee and are told that he DOES belong to the grange and that we CAN take him.
    4. We go to get McNugget and the coffee shop FREAKS out.

    If someone would just come forward and claim ownership, then we’d be happy to end this internet drama and deal directly with them.

  127. kristin Parshall on December 17th, 2009 11:58 am

    Hey FOOD FOR THOUGHT: When Debrah said “10 at night,” she was talking about 10 degrees at night which she already explained. Sorry to burst your bubble but you haven’t caught anyone in a lie, or whatever you think you “exposed.” I’m laughing!

  128. Debra Welsh on December 17th, 2009 12:08 pm

    Food for thought. It was a poorly written sentence. Again, as I later explained, I was there feeding him at 2. My point was that it was a very cold week. I was saying that it was 10 degrees at night not that I was there then. If you aren’t able to understand this, I can’t help you any further. Quite trying to make something out of nothing. It was too darn cold for him…. GET IT?

  129. Debra Welsh on December 17th, 2009 12:28 pm

    Hey Kristin
    Doesn’t the tone of hostility in Food For Thought’s posts sound very much like Ace? Are you thinking the same thing as I am? No substance, unresearched claims, unrealistic logic, outrageous accusations…..I think the attitude is reflective of what this/these people are lacking as far as taking any initiative at all in doing the research.

    Again. Check the facts on United Poultry Concern. I am making is pretty easy for you Ace/Food For Thought/Dori.

    Here is an actual PROFESSIONAL organization for facts on the needs of chickens and roosters. Here is a quote that is of note. “Below 20 degrees F, their combs and wattles can develop painful frostbite.”

    Here is a link to the United Poultry Concerns website:

    http://www.upc-online.org/home.html

    This organization has the “Best in America Rating” Certified by Independent Charities of America

  130. Doni Plant on December 17th, 2009 12:50 pm

    Mike, Sarah & Kristin,

    Why don’t you ask the owner of the espresso stand if she will allow you to put a shelter up in the tree for McNugget if you think he needs one? Maybe that would be a satisfactory solution for all involved? Mike, no one owes you any explanations for anything, and you did have a net. The barista saw it, i saw it and the police saw it. It had a long, white handle.

  131. Food for thought! on December 17th, 2009 1:23 pm

    Sorry Kristin hon… an attempt to now feed that bs isn’t going to work this time. Too bad that you didn’t take the time to read EXACTLY what she did write. I’ll post only the one sentence again to make it clear for you to see. And since in that one sentence she notes the DEGREES being around “20” and the TIME being around “10” AT *NIGHT*……….. there is no way to get away with twisting it into something else now!

    ***********************************************
    On the cold day last week with temps around 20 degrees and around 10 at night, McNugget was taking food from me very sweetly while shivering.
    ************************************************

    Oh wait… maybe she really meant “with temps around 10 degrees and around 20 at night”

    Give that one a try and see if it will stick! :-)

    No no no I got it! …. she “accidentally” typed NIGHT instead of day. hummm but than… did the temps fall to 20 eerr um 10 (or whatever the heck this story is really supposed to be) any day during the day? Better check that out before you go with that cover ok?

  132. Debra Welsh on December 17th, 2009 1:23 pm

    Paula,
    The 10 pm thing is now cleared up and over. I left out the word degrees and that is all I am going to say about that. You are just grasping at straws. I have not used the word ignorant….why would you come up with that word? Again, this blog is full of disagreements on both sides but where do you find that I have done any name calling.
    I have to enter so many posts because of posts like yours’. There are so many inaccurate accusations. Do you actually read everything or just what you think suits your argument?

    THE ABSOLUTE FACTS

    I went to the Grange FIRST and spoke to the manager. I think her name is Roxy. She is probably in her 40s, has medium blong hair and is about 5FT 8. I told her that Kristin had been looking after McNugget and would now like to provide a good home. It was about 20 DEGREES during the day and 10 DEGREES at night. Roxy said absolutely, by all means, if you can catch him please help him. If you don’t believe this, I would be happy to join you at the Grange and speak with her. After encountering the folks at the coffee stand and the lady in the car getting coffee and the lady with the long brown hair from the Grange yelling at us, I went back to the Grange and the lady with the long brown hair followed. She knows I spoke to Roxy because she saw me. Again, Roxy said “just take him.” She said it is too cold out there for him. So, back we went, only this time to face the police. So, Paula, I would strongly suggest that before you make any more inaccurate accusations, you check the facts. I will do whatever it take to prove that we went through, what we thought, were proper channels to help McNugget.

    Again. McNugget needs a warm, safe home. A parking lot is no proper home for a rooster.

  133. Debra Welsh on December 17th, 2009 1:36 pm

    Paula,

    I know I will get grief for too many posts but I just did control F to check for the word ignorant and could find it many times used against me but never against you. How odd that you felt you were called ignorant…humm??? Again, check the facts.

    This would all be laughable if it weren’t for the fact that poor McNugget is left out in the elements unprotected from weather and predators and his so-called caretakers could care less!

  134. Christine on December 18th, 2009 4:03 am

    Please do the right thing and get him in a proper housing situation with heat.