“If it was good enough for the founding fathers, it’s good enough for me.”

— Sarah Palin, as quoted in a 2006 Alaska gubernatorial race questionnaire after being asked whether the phrase “under God” in the pledge of allegiance is offensive. Just days after she was selected as John McCain’s running mate, the old questionnaire surfaced on political blogs across the U.S., with pundits pointing out that the Alaska Governor doesn’t seem to know her American history. The pledge of allegiance wasn’t written until 1892, and the phrase “under God” wasn’t added until the 1950s.

From
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1643290_1643292_1841409,00.html

Please read the Declaration of Independence. Our nation was founded on the belief that our citizens have certain inalienable rights ordained by God (our “creator”). Among them are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Saying “One nation, under God” is both accurate and does not establish any particular religion but is the free exercise by those that wish to acknowledge from where our rights originated. The constitution is a secular document establishing our governance and is wholly separate from the declaration that established our nation.

From the outset, Congress has opened with a prayer. We have always, from day one, aknowledged God’s hand in our nation’s creation. Thomas Jefferson believed strongly in Jesus Christ and his teachings as a prophet of God. He simply did not believe him to be God, which made him a non-standard Christian, referred to as “Deist”. Saying “under God” in our pledge of allegience does not establish a religion, it is the coming together of all religious beliefs. For those that don’t wish to say it, they do not need to.

For the fellow that felt uncomfortable when he did not recite the pledge, I’m sorry that was poor form by those around him. Taking “God” out of the pledge would not have alleviated that situation, as it seems the group was offended that he did not take the pledge at all.

“Our nation is founded on the belief that all of us have those inalienable rights, ordained by God”

Check again; the rights granted by the Constitution/Bill of Rights make absolutely zero mention of god, only that the state make no law promoting or restricting a religion. Where do you get this “ordained by god” stuff? You made it up, or you believe it because you’ve been told it’s true? It isn’t.

As can be seen from the several posts on this thread about it, there is a preponderance of evidence that the founding fathers explicitly kept any mention of god out of the constitution and the Bill of Rights. Where do people get this “we’re a Christian nation” thing? Must come from the same place that believes Jesus really was born on Dec. 25th on the year zero, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including evidence assembled by their own churches. it is a shame that religion breeds such blindness.

Want more proof? Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, and in fact when he was running for president, the opposing party labeled him a “Bible Burning Atheist” Yet still he became president.

The Second Amendment states that: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” This statement does allow you to exercise for faith, but it also states the government cannot make ANY law at all having to do with ESTABLISHING a religion, or BANNING one.

Besides mate, the under god part of the pledge was not added until 1954, and if you believe that the United States was founded in 1954, then you may need to hold on to your religion, because that’s all that is inside your gray matter.

Many emigrants left religious governments behind in the old country and were fleeing religious oppression. From colonization in the 17th century up to the signing of the Constitution, the settlers went through many attempts of self government. Each colony was virtually independent and many did indeed set up religious commonwealths. Maryland’s “Act Concerning Toleration” in 1649 granted religious freedom to all Christians who believed in the trinity (this was repealed five years later). Plymouth was a Protestant commonwealth and Rhode Island was Baptist.

All these different religious governments created much squabbling and discourse between the colonies and within each colony. In short, they found themselves back in the religious mess that some tried to escape in England; state-sponsored religion.

It wasn’t until 1768 that Jefferson’s Statue for Religious Liberty passed and not until 1833 that Massachusetts moved toward separation of church and state as advocated by James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. So, while it may be true that religious men (most were actually Deists) wrote the constitution, their experiences tempered their ideas of what works and what doesn’t.

The results of these experiences by our founding fathers was a Constitution the makes absolutely no mention of God. This omission of God is anything but an accident and they went to great efforts to create what Thomas Jefferson called “a wall of separation between church and state.

I was a visitor to the USA some years ago and attended a public event where people were invited to recite the pledge. As a non-US citizen, I stood politely and quitely while others recited it.

I recall in that situation several eyes glaring at me in disgust for not swearing allegiance to a country of which I am not a citizen. I felt very intimidated by the whole experience.

It would seem to me that there are societal links between being a Christian and a loyal American, despite the consitution being quite secular.

I would encourage Atheists to simply modify the pledge to leaving out the words “under God” if they feel patriotically compelled make a pledge. It could be argued that they are honouring the pledge in its orginal form. As many have pointed out the “under god” bit was added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, and are a corruption of the original text.

Equally you could all revert to the original text, but as with the Presidential oath of office simply add, “So help me God” for those who wish to at the end.

In fact the pledge has changed before that in 1923 so instead of saying “my flag” it was “the Flag of the United States of America.”

There are so many reasonable compromises which could be made on both sides in this situation, however my personal experience shows that there can be a great deal of intolerance when it comes to issues of inclusiveness.

+++++”What a joke and what a waste of the city councils time.”

You’re right. Mindlessly chanting a bunch of words, which the councilmembers aren’t even focused on, is a waste of the council’s time.

Oh, wait, you meant removing the pledge is a waste of time?? How so? The theism-pushing part is offensive to some of your neighbors. Why is stopping offensive actions a waste of time?

Regardless, it wouldn’t waste a lot of time. “I move that we remove the pledge.” “I second that.” “All in favor?” “Aye.” “The motion passes unanimously.”

There, that didn’t long at all.

+++++”He’s not required to say the pledge.”

Yeah. And? If a public school teacher asks all students to rise and recite the Lord’s Prayer, that’s still inappropriate, EVEN IF IT’S VOLUNTARY. If the council asks everyone to stand and celebrate their heterosexuality, that would be offensive to homosexuals, EVEN IF IT’S VOLUNTARY. Get it?

+++++”What is worse, offending one or offending many.”

You’d find the original pre-1954 pledge, that was said by schoolchildren during WWI and WWII, offensive? Really? Why’s that?

Or did you mean that you’d find the removal of the pledge to be offensive? If so, a lot of people were offended when government-sponsored prayer was removed from public schools. They (incorrectly) thought they had a right to have the government push their religious beliefs on others. But the Supreme Court disagreed.

Besides, those people could pray 24/7, all day long, if they so desired. Many of them learned that they didn’t need Big Brother to tell them when or how to pray. They can do it on their own. Ditto the pledge. You can buy a flag and do the pledge all day long. Knock yourself out. Your rights aren’t being affected at all.

But if you need Big Brother to hold your hand and/or if you need others to see how patriotic you are, then everyone who lives in Seattle who agrees with you should immediately complain to the Seattle City Council. After all, they’re offending everyone by NOT pushing theism on everyone!! How dare they??!!

Btw, I heard the Issaquah Park Board doesn’t start its meetings with the pledge, either. An outrage!!! Oh, and the Cemetary Board, too. And the Urban Village Commission!! And the poker club down on Front St doesn’t do it, either. Wow, you sure must get offended a lot, huh?

There’s even a Freedom FROM Religion Foundation (http://ffrf.org/). They help protect the separation of church and state.